Xudash wrote:Hall2012 wrote:I would say the best way to rank this is very simple: Trophies. Of which Nova's won 10 of a possible 15. The rest of us really need to pick it up.
Big East Trophy Rankings:
1. Villanova - 10
2. Seton Hall - 2
3. Creighton - 1
3. Xavier - 1
3. Providence -1
6. Butler - 0
6. Marquette - 0
6. St. John's - 0
6. Georgetown - 0
6. DePaul - 0
N/A. UConn
I know, rather I guess that we really don’t like to use the term “flag ship“ around here, but if ever there was an argument for naming Villanova the flag ship, this chart seals it. Not to mention the NC‘s.
MUBoxer wrote:If the conversation is purely All time program then it's
Nova
UCONN
GTown
MU
Then order the rest how you all want.
If it's recent history to about the age of recruits then
Nova
UCONN
GTown
MU
Butler
Then order the rest how you want.
If it's since the big East was formed it's
Nova
Seton Hall
Xavier
Creighton
Providence
Order the rest how you want.
Bottom line is comparing programs is usually subjective because people weigh different periods of time differently. To me, I wasn't in college long ago and Marquette is still coming off an 10/12 tournaments including a Final four, elite 8 and two sweet sixteens. But to an 18yr old, Was Matthews, jimmy butler and Jae crowder are all aging NBA veterans, Wade has always been on his way out and Marquette has just been a bubble team, usually on the wrong side since the NBE. So again it's subjective.
Xudash wrote:MUBoxer wrote:If the conversation is purely All time program then it's
Nova
UCONN
GTown
MU
Then order the rest how you all want.
If it's recent history to about the age of recruits then
Nova
UCONN
GTown
MU
Butler
Then order the rest how you want.
If it's since the big East was formed it's
Nova
Seton Hall
Xavier
Creighton
Providence
Order the rest how you want.
Bottom line is comparing programs is usually subjective because people weigh different periods of time differently. To me, I wasn't in college long ago and Marquette is still coming off an 10/12 tournaments including a Final four, elite 8 and two sweet sixteens. But to an 18yr old, Was Matthews, jimmy butler and Jae crowder are all aging NBA veterans, Wade has always been on his way out and Marquette has just been a bubble team, usually on the wrong side since the NBE. So again it's subjective.
Well, I certainly agree with you about it being subjective.
Marquette has been to the NCAAT 12 times since 2000, assuming 2000 provides sufficient "recency". 1 F4 and 3 S16's.
Xavier, in the same time period, put up 3 E8's and 4 additional S16's in that same period, making it to the NCAAT 16 times. Yes, it's all subjective, but I would say your "recent history" list is missing Xavier, even if you think a F4 is a requirement for that list, which it shouldn't be.
16 trips since the turn of the century with 7 of them making it to at least the round of 16 probably is memorable to most college basketball fans. Not to mention a very recent Number One Seed, which I guess I just mentioned.
MUBoxer wrote:1. I was using 18 years so going from 2002 but that number still holds for us. Though why do you get to include your elite 8s but counted 2013 as a sweet 16 for us? It was an elite 8.
2. Xavier was my clear next in line but to make sure there was a definitive line I broke it at Final four. Saying it shouldn't be a requirement is the opinion of a fan of a great program that's never been there. People rush the streets, riot, go insane etc. nobody does that for a Sweet 16 or elite 8. Not to mention you get a trophy for the Final Four, you won your region. There's nothing like that for a S16 or E8, nobody remembers 1 seeds outside of Virginia (Lol) Go to sporcle and start filling in Sweet 16 brackets over the past 18 years, you'll find it's a lot of guessing. If you then take off the Xavier glasses you'll realize that nobody remembers who was in the sweet 16 except for the fans and the fans of the team you beat to get there. I have major respect for what Xavier's done but you guys talking about the impact of a Final Four is like talking about having sex when you've never had it.
3. It was a weaker conference. Even when we were in CUSA. And yes I know St Joseph's had that unreal couple years, and temple was still legit, etc but all the same. 16 trips playing 3-4 good teams impresses me about as much as Gonzaga's run, Major respect for it, impressive consistency, but more than a few of those years I question how they would've looked in a major conference. Hence a clear next in line, but no FF means you can bicker about it with the other programs though I'd certainly put you next there. (Maybe even above butler)
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